Its been a tiny, sporadic, trickle.
Not a steady stream. Galt is pretty much spot on about this. Its not supposition. Its numbers.
Nuclear prohibition has failed
Re: Nuclear prohibition has failed
by John Galt » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:22 pm
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
My life has become a single, ongoing revelation that I haven’t been cynical enough.
My life has become a single, ongoing revelation that I haven’t been cynical enough.
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Re: Nuclear prohibition has failed
by John Galt » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:08 pm
Last edited by John Galt on Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
My life has become a single, ongoing revelation that I haven’t been cynical enough.
My life has become a single, ongoing revelation that I haven’t been cynical enough.
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John Galt - Technical Admin
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Re: Nuclear prohibition has failed
by Spider » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:09 pm
@Ex
Yes. A new addition every decade. Think about that.
If it were really a free for all nearly everyone would be sitting on a pile of the things by now. Its 1940's technology. Its not hard.
The NPT just gives everyone an excuse to save money by not bothering to develop the things while being relatively assured they won't need them because almost everyone else is thrilled about having the same excuse. The effort to engender that environment has been mostly successful. The reason the UN, the EU, and half the rest of the civilized world have sanctioned the crap out of Iran is because its been extremely good news for everyone involved to keep that genie shoved as deeply in the bottle as possible. There is nothing good that can come from letting it out.
Yes. A new addition every decade. Think about that.
If it were really a free for all nearly everyone would be sitting on a pile of the things by now. Its 1940's technology. Its not hard.
The NPT just gives everyone an excuse to save money by not bothering to develop the things while being relatively assured they won't need them because almost everyone else is thrilled about having the same excuse. The effort to engender that environment has been mostly successful. The reason the UN, the EU, and half the rest of the civilized world have sanctioned the crap out of Iran is because its been extremely good news for everyone involved to keep that genie shoved as deeply in the bottle as possible. There is nothing good that can come from letting it out.
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Re: Nuclear prohibition has failed
by Spider » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:30 pm
"Israel randomly bombing Iran"
What? That has never happened even once, much less in plurality, and even less with any randomness.
As I've said, I'm not terribly concerned about a bunch of middle eastern nuclear states right now, I'm concerned about them after the century of decline and impoverishment and upheaval they're doing nothing to prevent has run them through.
Somehow you seem to think that a tiny minority of states having a weapon is the same as a bunch of them having it, with all the exponentially increasing complexity that comes of it. Its not the same. NATO vs Warsaw Pact was actually a balancing act. We were talking about a couple of states so powerful it had never been contemplated before in history. It was a fear of unknown global consequences blowing back as much as the actual direct destruction. It was a yin and yang situation. It was bipolar. Two opposed ideologies battling it out. Thats two sides piling weight a teeter totter, keeping both sides mostly off the ground.
The middle east is nowhere near that simple. Plus we're talking about about a region that doesn't have a future. We have zero reason to believe that they can find a way to balance that many factors right now, to say nothing of what happens when the money tree dies and the real rage comes out.
What? That has never happened even once, much less in plurality, and even less with any randomness.
As I've said, I'm not terribly concerned about a bunch of middle eastern nuclear states right now, I'm concerned about them after the century of decline and impoverishment and upheaval they're doing nothing to prevent has run them through.
Somehow you seem to think that a tiny minority of states having a weapon is the same as a bunch of them having it, with all the exponentially increasing complexity that comes of it. Its not the same. NATO vs Warsaw Pact was actually a balancing act. We were talking about a couple of states so powerful it had never been contemplated before in history. It was a fear of unknown global consequences blowing back as much as the actual direct destruction. It was a yin and yang situation. It was bipolar. Two opposed ideologies battling it out. Thats two sides piling weight a teeter totter, keeping both sides mostly off the ground.
The middle east is nowhere near that simple. Plus we're talking about about a region that doesn't have a future. We have zero reason to believe that they can find a way to balance that many factors right now, to say nothing of what happens when the money tree dies and the real rage comes out.
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