Political Crossfire Forums

when Caesar crossed the Rubicon, multiple phrases were coined and he took his 13th legion into Italy, committing treason

why did he do this though? was he merely entirely power hungry and wanted to be Dictator for Life? or was there a more simple explanation: he didn't want to be arrested for OTHER things

Consuls in the Roman Republic enjoyed complete immunity from prosecution. the romans of course had two consuls to rule them, not trusting one man (except in an emergency, when they did trust one man, and made him Dictator) and only had year terms. when the term was up you couldn't serve again for 10 years. this meant that if you did a bunch of bad stuff during your consulship you would then be prosecuted and probably executed since that's how things worked

Ceasar of course was consul in 59BC, elected along with Marcus Bibulus. Ceasar was generous with bribes (playing with money that wasn't even his to begin with) to get elected. once elected, he revealed to everyone the Triumvirate of Caesar, Pompey the Great, and Marcus Licinius Crassus, by proposing a bunch of populist stuff that also benefited them at the expense of the old codgers in the senate. Marcus Bibulus, the other consul, could veto, but in the face of the triumvirate who were the most popular, most military successful, and richest men, respectfully, in the roman republic, he could not actually do that. so instead, as consul, he declared every day for the rest of the year a holiday -- and no votes could take place. Ceasar, which for reasons also held the highest office in the roman religion for life, Pontifex Maximus, ignored this entire thing and held votes anyway. Marcus Bibulus fled to his house and didn't do anything about it. Romans would say "in the year of Consul A and Consul B" when describing a given year, and in this year it was described as the "in the year of Julius and Ceasar" because of all of this.

What's the point I'm making. well, after the consulship, they got a cushy job of a proconsulship if they are good. that's like a governor in a province. It also allowed for continued immunity from the laws and got you out of dodge for the time. unlike consulships, they could last for many years in a row. Ceasar worked it out with his triumvirate buddies how it would all be, and ended up going to Gaul, where he committed mass genocide/ended the barbarian threat and finally ended the roman nightmare from hundreds of years before when the Gauls had sacked rome

but all good things must come to an end, and his proconsulship ended and he had to go back to rome. the legions were forbidden from being in italy proper, so when he crossed the rubicon with the legion he was committing treason. but again, why?

well he bribed everyone he could to get the office in the first place and literally committed sacrilege every day by continuing to hold votes on holidays. his enemies would have him killed for all of this because they knew the kind of man he was.

in crossing the rubicon, ceasar was merely attempting to evade the heavy hand of the law from coming down on him. it wasn't so much a power grab for himself but rather simply trying to stay in power so he wouldn't be prosecuted for crimes. he was popular with the unwashed masses yes, but the senatorial class did not approve (and eventually murdered him)

and here we get to today. trump's desperate plays to stay in office are the same as ceasar. and he was willing to cross any sacred line in order to do this. the question is, does trumnp's crossing of the rubicon actually mean the same thing since he was not successful in obtaining power? i think it's still a question up in the air, and i think the only way to avert the fate of the romans is to hold the man accountable. if he isn't held accountable, if the crimes are not made public and repudiated, if he is not given a Damnatio memoriae then that means even though he was not "succesful" in remaining in power he was successful in the aims that were important to him. thus this means that his actions have become normalized

the Roman Republic lasted nearly 500 years. while there have been serious changes to the American Republic as a result of WWII, none of them actually come close to what trump was attempting to do, which, in the end, would be the death of the republic. after the republic ended, the senate still existed. sometimes they had some fleeting relevance, but often not. did they realize they weren't a republic? certainly some did, but probably not all. they still had consuls, they still had senators, there was just some other guy who held it all together as well, but people were still elected right

This was crossed while he was POTUS - he clearly and plainly committed crimes while in office but hid behind the position of power to avoid culpability. He attempted to get a foreign state to help him get re-elected. He started an insurrection on January 6th and new evidence will show his muted response and the inner pleas within his close confidants to do something about it for hours...before he actually did anything.

John - we do not have rule of law in this country anymore. If you have money/wealth - you can buy yourself out of anything. Epstein utilized his connections/wealth for a long period of time and avoided charges that nearly any other US citizen would've been hung up on a wall for (figuratively and possibly literally).

Lastly - the Sackler family still has billions of dollars in wealth and is personally responsible for corrupting healthcare supply chains and more deaths than the even the coronavirus has claimed in the US (or about equal to at this point).

I will say there is finally justice in this country once I see something done about the Sackler family. Until then - we are a slowly rotting western industrialized power that is unable to come to grips with how much wealth and its concentration has corrupted all of our systems (regulatory capture, corrupt politicians, corruption made legal through lobbyists, tax avoidance made legal, continued and massive M&A activity without proper anti-trust oversight, underfunded IRS, etc). It's everywhere man.

my point was that he was like Caesar in the reasons why he tried to grab more power: to avoid the law. Thus the only recourse we have is to make sure he can't avoid the law, or we go down the road of Rome

Kinda crazy when you think about it...

China's influence on MNC's is purely bottom line - they have a larger market therefore MNCs stand to make more money in China if they're allowed to operate there by Xi Jinping. And so you have Disney bending over or them - John Cena, Lebron James, etc. How much further does anybody think this extends in our political system? How many US politicians have chinese interests in the US that are well capitalized?

Think about Taiwan and Foxconn in Wisconsin...look at that huge debacle. Wasted tax payer dollars, entire political campaigns debating the point, and the utterly shambolic result.

Concentration of wealth in this country and the inability of our institutions to address it is seriously hampering our own economic development. Wages are stagnating exactly because of consolidation...but I think the pandemic may have short circuited some of it. Dupont and PFOS/PFAS - degree to which that was hidden, etc.

So now that various Governors are in the human trafficking game, is it safe to say that, reelected or not, Trump has managed to destroy the Republic?

back to my initial post I was talking about how attempting to escape prosecution is what was driving Trump

we are at a crossroads. is claiming you think about or actually running for office, or being elected in office, a get-out-of-prosecution-free-card, then we are done, yes

the walls are closing in around trump. the hammer should have fell a long time ago, but it still can.

as for desantis and abbott, they should also get theirs, yes, and failure to do so is a very worrying sign. but that would be a failure of federalism IMO

THAT ALL SAID, if we can weather this storm, I think we need to seriously solidify our foundations to withstand another with a new constitutional convention. climate change is real.

i think this take is correct https://www.salon.com/2022/09/22/its-a- ... -finished/

I do think Roevember will leave the Dems with both houses, and an even larger majority in the Senate. I will go so far as to say I think Iowa is in play. NV, AZ, CO, NH, PA, WI, OH, NC, GA I think will all go dem, and FL likely, with IA maybe. This is 54 to 56 Dem majority I am predicting. In the house, hard to say, but similar to what they currently have, a Dem majority. gerrymandering f**k up everything

but with this gift the Democrats must use the next two years to fortify everything. end the filibuster. expand the House, expand the Union, expand the Court, expand healthcare, expand voting rights, expand women's rights

of course if they don't win we have to just hold on again for another two f**k years and hope that it can finally break after that.... maybe i hope too much. maybe i have too much confidence in my fellow man. but the pollsters were about 10% off for every election since Roe was overturned and I think it will continue. that Dark Brandon keeps kicking ass will just add to this

If what's happening in the UK is any indication I don't think October will be a friendly month to any party currently in power. I hope you're right John but there are a lot of things going down that are very...very bad all at the same time and the pace is quickening.