Spider, need some riding tips

[broken robot]

Ah I see, see who takes your advice and do some filtering out of the genetic pool? Brilliant!

[Spider]

[Professor]

This may depend upon your transmission/clutch (not a motorcycle guy, but I raced the Honda 125s with 6-speed transmissions on karts - basically, lightly modified motorcycle engines), but do you actually need to engage the clutch to shift? We used the clutch only for getting going in 1st. After that, we rev-matched all the shifts.

Take a look at this graph. It calculates RPM and speed for a given gear. This is for upshifting, I believe. Basically, if you hold first gear until the 10,400 redline, you'll be going 80mph. But, you want to shift somewhere before that. On this graph, it's recommending you shift at something arounf 75mph. This drops your RPMs from 9880 to 7220. But, think about what's happening in your motor, transmission, and at the wheel. Your wheel is only going 75mph. But, your engine is at 9880. When you shift to 2nd, if you don't let off the throttle and allow the RPMs to drop, then your engine will still be going 9880 when you engage the clutch. This is going to make the bike want to surge forward.



Downshifting is exactly the opposite. Your shift points won't be that high in the RPM range (higher RPMs = more power, to a certain point), since you don't need any power when downshifting. So, let's say you are in 3rd going 120kph and want to slow down. For a while, you just stay in 3rd. But, if you're slowing to 80kph for traffic and want to be in 2nd when traffic starts rolling again, you'll need to downshift. When you hit 80mph in 3rd, your engine is only turning 5800rpm or so. But, when you shift to 2nd, it'll need to be at 7600 or so in order to continue at 80kph. If you shift without blipping the throttle, as soon as you engage the clutch, your rear wheel will mechanically rev your engine. This takes energy to do (same way it takes gasoline expoding to make it rev higher), so it will take energy away from the rear tire. This decelerates the rear tire rather quickly. Basically, you are decelerating the rear tire by not rev matching. So, you need to blip the throttle up to around 7600 in order to make a smooth transition.

The good news is that you don't mave to memorize this graph. Usually, a "blip" is just that. You'll just slightly twist the throttle handle to raise the RPMs a bit. So long as you get it close, you're fine. It takes relatively little energy from the rear wheel to change 200-400rpms. But, making the wheel absorb 2000RPMs is a recipe for disaster.

[John Galt]

i always pull in the clutch when shifting. i don't think i can shift without it actually; i think it only allows you to change gears if you pull the clutch in. first few gears you'll play with the the clutch friction zone more than just braking actually. going to higher gear though i just quickly do it, only pulling in the clutch when braking (hard). or perhaps im misunderstanding because i can't imagine being in first gear at 75mph for any reason ever

when i downshift i pull on the throttle some just to make sure its all fine, trying to keep engine speed as close to road speed as possible. downshifting for me is smooth. sometimes i upshift too early, namely, when starting from a stop going up a hill; i have no tachometer and i am just feeling it and i guess i feel it too early because it doesn't want to switch gears right away and i end up lurching about repeatedly kicking up. only freaked me out the first time.

but.... my battery is in my laundry room hooked to a tender because it was 9 degrees out this morning

[Professor]

If you rev match, you can actually shift without using the clutch at all. But, that's mostly used for racing purposes, not on the street.

[Spider]

...well. Its a constant mesh sequential, so its not like you have to worry about synchros spinning up. If there isn't an accel/decel load on the gears, and the ratios match, you should be able to shift clutchless.

Still...it simply can't be good for the transmission to be banged around like that. Can it? I mean...without synchros, with a constant mesh...and with matched ratios and speeds...how would it hurt the gearbox?

And lots of bikes will do 70+ in first gear. Mine does around 90 in 1st. (Not that I'd know first hand of course). A ZX-10 will do over a hundred in 1st. Some of these things are completely ridiculous.

Which is why they make fun for shifter karts.

[broken robot]

Alright so I'm starting to get the hang of downshifting. I still have a little trouble though going from 2nd to 1st say approaching a stop light. I feel like when I'm in 1st gear the engine's running really hard, anything past 20mph and it's vibrating like crazy. Is this just the rebel?

So I got some pretty good practice going around the bends in canyons around here, just beautiful places to ride. Now that I'm getting a little more comfortable overall, I was wondering if it's time to start lane splitting? I know the basics (never split lanes between moving and stopped traffic, where cars are parked, etc.) I see a lot of guys doing it at stop lights.

Also I learned the "two fingers to the ground" salute to other bikers. I tried it out (there are a lot of bikes here), but mostly only cruisers seemed to respond. Do people riding sportsbikes nod or something?

[Spider]

Is this your bike? Its what I get when I search for Rebel 250 instruments.



Those red marks that correspond with each gear are not suggestions on when to shift to the next gear, they are where the REDLINE for each gear is at. In first gear if you are running at 20 MPH, you are over-revving your engine, and you risk severe damage or even totally blowing it up. The redline in that gear is 20 MPH. You should probably be shifting to second around 10-15 MPH. The vibrating like crazy is you over-revving that motor! That bike does not have a rev limiter as far as I know, and so you are probably floating the valves at that high of an engine speed, which is extremely bad.

Don't do that!

Its a 250, it doesn't have long legs. Shift it early and often.

IMO its never time to start lane splitting. California is unique in that its perfectly legal to do down there, but I can't imagine it being anything but a bad idea. But that's just me. You're the one hanging it out there hoping some asshole doesn't decide to try to cut you off out of spite or open a door on your or something. Your ass, your call. Guys are probably doing it at stop lights to get a jump across the intersection. I personally don't try to get jumps across intersections because that is where most of the attempts on my life have been made.

I'm not there with you, but if you're just now figuring out shifting and where your redlines are...don't start splitting lanes.

As to the biker's wave...its pretty universal. Everyone on two wheels waves to everyone else on two wheels, when its not hazardous to do so. Some people are just too cool for school, and so don't. A lot of Harley Davidson owners are bizarre cultists, and think that there are no other motorcycles other than HD, and so won't deign to acknowledge your existence. Hell with those midlife crisis machines and the fat geezers on them anyways.

Or maybe there is some Californian thing where you have sportbike elitists? I've ridden in NorCal quite a bit (on sportbikes) and I've not found it any different that the PNW, so I dunno. I just wave at everyone. Diplomacy. I've been as far NE as Chicago and as far SE as N. Carolina (pilgrimage to Deal's Gap) on motorcycles and its been totally consistent.

[broken robot]

Holy jeebus. Thank you spider. There's a reason why I post on this forum. I'd give you 3+ thanks if I could. Yeah, that's my instrument panel. I knew something was up, I guess I should go with instinct and not do things that are uncomfortable. It's a balance. I'd like to ride with someone with experience too, I think that'd be helpful. Gotta find a friend...

Okay, yeah I've been sticking to a whole lane. I've been playing it better safe than sorry in terms of lanes, so I'll keep doing that. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

Haha, I'd heard the same thing about HDs. I saw a guy though on a big rig probably an HD and one of those crazy German style helmets give me the biker salute. I felt part of a community. There ARE a lot of sportsbikes here, far outnumber cruisers. Don't know why.

Re: temptation to split lanes, cause I know some friends who've done it, I think it has to do with all the traffic out here. Seems like a shortcut. But I consider myself cautious and will be sticking to my own lane. I guess getting there late is better than never.

[Spider]

No problem, live and learn.

And yes, the motorcycle community is pretty cool. Very rural areas aside, its pretty much the last group of people where members will smile and wave at perfect strangers like that. Its a lot of positive vibes, and you always find friendly riders wherever you wind up. There are probably quite a few local motorcycle clubs you can look into...ranging from idiots trying to kill themselves to very family friendly Coast Highway and BBQ types of gatherings.