RIP GWB Sr.

[NAB]

At this point, is there any President who couldn't be vilified for some horrible shit they did while in office? When you're heading an Empire, that's going to come with the gig.

Don't try and hide behind that house you're rehabbing Jimmy Carter, I see you.

[NAB]

[JDHURF]

[Spider]

You seem to have a rather skewed notion of what job qualifications are.

And statements about presidents are framed relative to other presidents, or other world leaders. Not selfless priests starving to death in some 3rd world hellscape because they're giving their own rations away to the orphans.

A little realistic perspective would be in order, hurf. Even to get into a position to conceivably someday run for POTUS means you are already an egomaniacal opportunist that sees other humans as footholds.

What's actually being said about Bush is that he's was actually pretty damn solid as presidents go. Not that he was some sort of saint.

[JDHURF]

[Spider]

[Philly]

What Spider is expressing is a pretty common sentiment. The idea is that if a President commits evil deeds and horrible crimes, but lots of other Presidents have committed similar evil deeds and crimes, then that one specific man should not be scrutinized or judged as a person for doing those things while he was President. In other words, the crimes are bad, but since there's all the Presidents in modern history have committed some of these horrific crimes, we shouldn't hold it against any of them personally. Call it grading on a curve.

I certainly understand the idea of certain evils in the world being systemic or institutional. I also understand that people become bound by circumstance and sometimes have to make a decision that doesn't have any entirely good options. The way American society deals with these harsh realities, it seems, is not a one-size-fits,-all approach. If you 're a person who finds yourself in a tough circumstance produced by the systemic flaws of society, and face a decision with no good options, the choice you make may have varying level of negative consequences on others.

Say, for instance, that you are a parent working for minimum wage and just barely make ends meet in order to keep a roof over your daughter's heads. After an unforeseen and unavoidable personal emergency sets you back financially, you are unable to make rent and facing eviction. You have no support system in the form of more affluent family or a friend who can loan you the money. You toil away 80 hours a week because nothing is more important to you than providing a home for your child, and you will not allow her to spend even one night of her life in homelessness, whatever it takes. So before you leave your shift at work, you wait until no one is looking and pull 500 dollars out of the cash register -- it's the only money you can possibly get your hands on in time to avoid eviction.

If it's discovered you've done that, you'll lose your job and quite likely be criminally charged, a taint upon your record that will follow you around forever and make even a low-wage job with no benefits like the one you had nearly impossible to have. If you could only barely provide for your daughter before, you'll almost certainly be prevented from managing to do so now, and that's the problem you now face if you're lucky. If you're unlucky, you could be facing incarceration and have your child taken away from you. The least fortunate and least powerful in society must be held accountable to their actions.

If you're the President of the United States your difficult choices look a little different. Your foreign policy advisers have brought a circumstance to your attention. There is a troubling situation developing in a South American country. Political and social unrest by the people there poses a real threat to overthrow the current government, which was not empowered by a democratic election. The call for regime change and democracy has support of the population, but their peaceful protests have been met with violent suppression and activist leaders are being imprisoned. Now, an armed militia of guerrilla fighters has risen up and it appears they may soon overwhelm the government and seize control of the country. This regime change would not, in any foreseeable way, pose a risk to the safety of the United States nor any of our allies. However, the current government is considered amenable to US interest, as their leadership's rightwing political program suppresses any threat of a communist system taking hold like it has elsewhere in the continent. Additionally, US business interests find that the current government makes doing business in the resource-rich country quite easy. Your choice is whether or not to send weapons and military advisers to the aid of the current government. With the help of the advisers being sent, several key rebel strongholds would be bombed. These are in highly populated areas, and high civilian casualty will be inevitable.

Killing lots of innocent people in order to prevent democracy from taking hold in this country isn't a nice thought. But if you don't do it then they could be replaced by a left-wing government and potentially socialize the economy, which has to be prevented because reasons. It's also very questionable whether or not US businesses would be able to keep conducting their lucrative dealings under the new orders.

Many a President, when facing situations relatively similar to this one throughout the 20th century, made the choice to order that the operation be carried out. Mass deaths came as a result, and oppressive dictators were kept in power. The struggling parent who committed theft in a moment of desperation had their life ruined for taking a few hundred dollars from a company. So to what account is the most powerful man in the world held? Well, there's no criminal consequences for this decision, and he gets to still be President. And he'll still be welcome in all America's most elite and prestigious circles for the rest of his life. And also, if anyone ever brings it up and says that he's bad for having done it, smart and reasonable people like Spider will tell you that you're being dumb.

See? Our society has ways of dealing with all these things, and they make perfect sense.

[JDHURF]

[Philly]

[Spider]