What do you guys think about hate crimes?

[exploited]

[Dylan]

[exploited]

[Dylan]

Why yes, the context of crimes and the effect therein on ones mental state are considered. This is a given.

You argued that only actions, not mental states, should be punished becuse that's just what the criminal justice system does. I pointed out that this is wildly inaccurate. You then narrowed your assertion to say that the law shouldn't punish dislike of somebody. Okay, that's a little better (and I'm glad you learned something from me, I always enjoy teaching) but it doesn't change the fundamental issue that we are not just discussin beliefs, we are discussing beliefs as manifested and intertwined with actions, which changes the calculus.

Also there are lots of other laws that look to intent to harm individuals. Libel and defamation for starters.or have you also decided these are unconstitutional?

Note that the case you cite does not hold all hate crime laws violative of the first amendment, btw, so I would sheathe that sword.

[exploited]

[wormwood]

[Sazari]

lol that case sure as shit does not say that punishing a person for more harshly for their actions, based on their motivations, is unconstitutional. I'm not sure how you grabbed that out of the wiki. If you actually looked at the case, it deals with an issue of free speech, not harsher sentencing. The court basically said burning a cross (which is not an illegal action) could not be punished under the ordinance because it amounted to criminalizing what would otherwise be non-criminal behavior on the basis of motive and intent. But when you already have a crime, like assault or murder, it's perfectly fine to impose harsher sentences based on motive and intent. If you seriously think that is unconstitutional then just about every felony on the books would be unconstitutional since they take mental state into account.

Look, motivation and intent are a huge factor in just about every serious crime. What do you think the difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree murder is for example. It is intent and motivation. Hate-crime legislation is simply imposing further punishment if your actions are motivated by something that society would find awful.

The fact that it's not illegal to be a racist means nothing. Is it illegal to have premeditated thoughts about murdering someone. No. If you murder someone will the fact that it is pre-mediatated be used against you to justify a harsher sentence. Yes.

[Sazari]

[Dylan]

[wormwood]