Iran: Moving Toward a Final Solution

[Sandman]

I think you make some great points, but to paint those in washington who don't want a nuclear Iran as fools with some irrational, fantastical vision of the Iranians being "madmen", or by extension lapdogs of the Israel lobby, is not very fair or realistic. The president, whoever it may be at any given time, doesn't have the luxury of seeing Iran as a single smiling dignitary in George Clooney blazers, or the masses of pro-western students protesting him. Iran has been the biggest state sponsor of terror for decades. There's no way around that. Right now in 2012, the president still has to watch coffins come home, packed with dead bodies of soldiers for which you don't need too many degrees of separation to attribute to Iranian culpability. It's kind of easy to sit back on our level, with our information, seeing only BBC news of crippling US/EU sanctions and flowery UN speeches and say, "What's the big deal?". But put yourself in the shoes of the president, or the chairman of the joint cheifs of staff, or the director of the CIA, and ask yourself...............is a nuclear Iran really something we want to happen? Given what they are actually doing, and having been doing for decades against America? We in the states might not be feeling the heat of an Iranian threat, but I assure you, many Americans in uniform have and are.

And for what it's worth, I think we can and should make historical concessions for why Iran hates us, while still remaining firm on not letting them get their hands on weapons that could kickstart armageddon. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I like that we have a president who understands that real diplomacy involves being honest about our mistakes, and doesn't see weakness in having that kind of honest discussion with foreign leaders. I also like that we have a president who, when presented with all the facts and the reality of the world, didn't stay stagnant in his comfy campaign rhetoric that diplomacy is all that is needed. A nuclear Iran isn't a benign threat, and anyone who argues that does so against all evidence.

[dontworrybehappy]

[exploited]

[Kane]

[exploited]

[exploited]

[Sandman]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think this is a bit of a semantics debate. Terror is simply a tactic, as Odom said, so maybe I should have qualified the statement about Iran as them being the world's biggest supporter of aggressive anti-American jihad. Like I said, I think we can agree on the bloody consequences of past US interventionism, be conciliatory about them in our diplomacy, while still soberly recognizing immediate threats. Iran is a theocratic state with regional expansionist tendencies that suppresses it's own people, and has a long history of directly funding and arming people who directly murder Americans. Sometimes in open theaters of war. Philosophically I fully understand and agree with all the arguments about the US not having any moral high ground to stand on being the only nation who actually used nukes, who doesn't always follow the same treaties we try to enforce, who has a seemingly endless capacity to intervene in the affairs of other sovereign nations. I get it. But we also still have a basic right to defend ourselves from credible threats. Any nation that is actively killing our troops, by proxy or otherwise, should not reasonably expect our president or our intelligence and military organizations to sit back and accept the idea that that same nation having nuclear capabilities is not a literal, physical threat to us. If you want to make the case that we deserve whatever comes to us, fine, but the whole "Iran is harmless" notion is a little ridiculous.

[exploited]

[dontworrybehappy]

The USA has NEVER been found to be in violation of the NNPT. If we had, it would be international news. You can pull up links of people OPINIONS about anything. I want facts. The fact is we have disarmed ourselves of more nuclear warheads in the past 20 years than most of the world has in their inventory. We have taken more steps to reduce our nuclear stockpiles than certainly Russia has. Russia just moves them around, and thinks we don't know.

Even Obama agrees Iran is in violation and said so in 2010.

Mod edit. -u

[exploited]

Mod edit. -u