Background Check Fails in Senate

[The Dharma Bum]

[Indy]

You mean like a FOID card? OMG my rights: they've been trampled!

And you're also playing with your interpretation of the 2nd amendment, taking an absolutist view that the founding fathers meant every person in this country has the "right" to own any kind of gun no matter what their background or criminal record.

So of course any sort of restriction on that is infringing on your "rights." Well guess what? It's certainly up to interpretation if that's the "right" they had in mind.

And don't even lecture me bro about not caring about rights being trampled when all these same people who pull out their dicks and say "from my cold head hands" when it comes to owning guns grab their ankles and turn around if it's something like The Patriot Act or plutocrats buying off the gov't and installing two sets of laws.

Where are all you gun owners when that's happening? I'll tell you where: *crickets* Certainly not using those guns that you squeal about owning but then when the time comes you can't even pull the trigger. Shit just for that they should be taken away... yeah you may exercise your "right" to own them but everything stops there.

Meanwhile, the fight you DO join is the one to make sure that ANYBODY can easily obtain those same guns, so they can shoot people for whatever reason they want.

[lnrw]

You're way off base on that.

Point out a single reference by anyone in this thread, now or at any other time that has ever spoke in favor of the Patriot Act.

And I will bet your list will be very very short.

that claim is science fiction.

Just imagine if people had started shooting. You would be screaming at the top of your lungs for more of what you're asking fow now.

We too are law abiding and peaceful folks. We do not want bad people to be able to get guns. That too is fiction, a strawman as you like to say.

We just don't think you're going about it the right way. what's so hard to comprehend about that?

and another thing, you flip flop between us being trigger happy and never pulling the trigger. which is it?

Why are you screaming for more control if no one ever pulls the trigger? that seems like pretty good control without any new laws. No?

You're very emotional in your post above, but not very rational.

[Indy]

What's so hard to comprehend is that you don't have a problem with background checks for licensed dealers but you do for unlicensed or online sales, which negates the point of having them at all if they're that easy to get around.

So really we don't have background checks in this country if they're that easy to beat.

So let's quit pretending we do.

And yeah, I don't remember any of these liberty-loving gun owners taking those guns to the streets (or even a flippin' tea party rally) for the Patriot Act or when Wall St. robbed the country and imposed its rule, so let's also dispense with the idea that this is a liberty-based movement unless your singular definition of liberty is owning whatever gun you want... that you'll never use when we need you to.

The end game here is no restrictions on gun purchasing in the United States. The sooner you just admit that, the sooner I stop heckling.

[lnrw]

But what you're calling the end game is just not the case. It's just how you're seeing it. right? You interpret the 2nd differently and claim that you're interpretation is right. but no other interpretation of what liberty is or should be, is acceptable to you.

It's the equivalent of stomping your feet. You won't be reasonable until you get your way.

Well, go ahead and stomp. I hope you don't hurt your foot.

There's some edits in my post above yours.

How many people on that patriot act list? Or is that now passe?

You're running away form the points you made that I addressed. Anything more to say on those?

If we'll never use it , what's your problem?

[exploited]

I think Indy makes a fair point... most gun right advocates don't want any restrictions, because they believe that it won't stop criminals from getting guns. At least IMO. Which is a fine point, but one that I think ignores the negative impacts of unrestricted ownership of guns (the biggest being that it is a frequent justification for militarized police).

Anyways, the issue is too hysterically emotional to get any sort of honest facts about the efficacy (or lack thereof) of gun control. And I think America has way, way bigger problems that are not being focused on because of issues like gun control or gay marriage or abortion or cheating Senators or dick-pics of Congressmen. Not that these issues aren't important, but they are inflaming partisanship, which is effectively destroying the possibility of addressing bigger issues.

[lnrw]

Of course there are restrictions.

And by the way, they won't stop criminals from getting guns. Which is one of the few things both pro and anti agree with.

[exploited]

[lnrw]

[Indy]

Lnrw I'm not being immovable at all.

I personally don't see why we should allow 30-round mags or assault-style heavy/rapid-fire weapons for civilians. What the hell possible use is there for "law-abiding" good folk to have those? You want to shoot them? Fine: make them rentable at ranges or something.

But I'm even willing to drop that in favor of something as plain-as-day as UBCs. Most people probably agree with me.

Yet we can't even get that. Because we either get wacky conspiracy theories about how UBCs will lead to gun confiscation or we get people who don't realize they blatantly contradict themselves by allowing BCs when it's licensed dealers but no way if it's not, which of course negates the point of having BCs.

It's like financial regulation: if you're going to have it, have it, don't have such obvious loopholes in it that I'm supposed to be satisfied with "Well, you got that at least," which is... nothing.

Conversely, though, there is no such compromise being offered. Unrestricted gun purchasing. Period.

And honestly this is not a pet issue to me, it just drives me nuts when people who try and force this down our throats paint themselves as liberty-defending patriots.

Well, yeah, when it comes to gun owning.

Like I said with the bank regs, if you're going to be a patriot, that's a full-time job, people: you can't defend one liberty and then roll over on the others.

As I've said before, somebody long ago figured out that if we give everybody their guns, that will placate the masses.